Tell me what your plans are next. You're working with a producer and you're about to record your first album. Who's the producer?
Lukas: Tim O'Heir. He's produced a lot of really great records. A lot of Lou Barlow stuff and Sebadoh, Samiam, Veruca Salt, All-American Rejects.
How'd you hook up with him?
Mike: A friend of ours passed along our demo to him through somebody else. He'd gotten four things at once that people were trying to get him to produce, mostly major label stuff. He thought, well all this stuff sucks except this one band's demo.
He's an old school punk rock and roller from Boston. He came to our first "showcase" show. It was funny 'cause my friend had told me about him so I looked up the stuff that he had done, just out of curiosity. He'd done some old Boston bands like Only Living Witness and Slapshot, just some old weird stuff. So when I met him I was like "oh, dude I love that Only Living Witness record!" He was like "what?"
He's been to every show we played in NY, in the middle of the crowd screaming his head off. He's really cool... he's like a fan of the band so it works out really well.
Have you practiced with him yet?
Bob: We're gonna do a week of pre-production with him where he's going to come to practice and basically rip us all apart. Destroy our hopes and dreams.
You've each been living here varying amounts of time, but what do you think about the New York scene in comparison with Boston or Pennsylvania? Do you have a kind of family with other bands here?
Lukas: Yeah, there's a great band that we love called the Everyothers who we met on our last tour. We were playing SXSW and they happened to be playing the same show. They're an amazing band and they're recording with the same producer that we are. They're just fucking awesome and everyone should check them out.
Anyone else?
Mike: Coming from a predominantly hardcore scene and being a pretty big part of the scene from where we came, as far as establishing it in general... and kind of always being in awe of NY and the NY hardcore scene... I originally found it disappointing moving out here. I didn't feel like there was the same intimacy or level of participation as I did back in Pennsylvania. Since then, I've learned to appreciate different aspects of it. See... this is the perfect opportunity to talk lots of shit.
Yup.
Mike: Let's just totally talk shit. Not about any bands in particular...
Well, I'm curious, because I grew up in the NY scene and I'm pretty disappointed with the way things are here now. I lived in Boston for a few years and I was psyched when I first moved there to see the camaraderie. To see bands that were doing really well helping each other out. Coming back from there, where it was a really tight knit scene... We talked about it a little bit the other day. I think it's so manufactured that there's a scene in NY because I don't really feel like there is. Everybody's out for themselves, doing their own thing.
Mike: It's totally like that.
Lukas: But it's six of one, half dozen of the other, because when I was living in Boston, kids would like bands just because they were supposed to like them. They would support any band. The same thing goes here but it's a lot more fashion, politics, bullshit like that.
There is something to be said for the amount of people living in New York. If you can make it here... if people actually do like your band that aren't just shitheads from Williamsburg...like me... (laughter)
And me.
Lukas: ...You're pretty golden. This is one of those cities where if you can fucking do it here, you can do it anywhere.
Mike: I just think that there's so many bands and so much stuff to do on any given night that it's almost impossible to get one of your friends to come see your band, let alone become a successful band. I was gonna say something before, but I forget...
Lukas: Monkey pussy?
Mike: Yeah. Oh, just about... One day I was walking out of a club and this reporter from Austria or somewhere in Europe was interviewing people for a big magazine over there. They were like, can you tell us who some of the great new NY bands are and how you feel the NY rock and roll scene is so revolutionary? I sat there for like 15 minutes trying to pretend that I really had an answer because I didn't want to be like "well, it kind of sucks." In the end that's what I ended up saying.
I feel there's such an emphasis on NY being this musical mecca, and like we were talking about the other night, that Williamsburg is supposed to be this super hotbed, when pretty much it's really just a bunch of people that are fucking bored. I think that whole scenario is the reason why we, as a band, never had to sit down and describe how we wanted to sound, it was almost more of a reaction. We didn't say, oh, we like these bands, let's try to start a band like this. It's more like, we hate this all this shit, let's piss them off.
Lukas: I think it should be said though in Williamsburg's defense...
Mike: DEFEND BROOKLYN?
Lukas: Mainstream music fucking sucks. And when shit sucks that bad, you want to depart from it as much as possible. And some asshole playing a Moog keyboard and screaming about legwarmers is a huge departure from Mandy Moore. Though I hate all that shit, I think that had to happen. A huge subculture like that had to exist and since NY is such a fashionplate, it had to turn into something that dumb.
Mike: I think that was an initial reaction, and ours is a reaction to both of those things, maybe a post-reaction.
Your song "Generation Vexed" seems to be the same kind of concept. Do you think it relates to the idea that people are too lazy to come up with anything original...
(Lukas' cell phone goes off, tape is paused)
So. Explain the meaning of life.
Mike: That's like when my Mom asked me what art was.
That's a good question. With no answer. At all.
Mike: We were talking about "Generation Vexed." Well, there's two main driving forces behind it. The way I introduce the song normally when we play it is I say something stupid along the lines of... "This song is about when you turn on the Superbowl and there's commercials with kids that look like me and you trying to sell you skateboards, Doritos, and fucking Mountain Dew."
Which is basically the way that the whole punk rock aesthetic has been picked up by corporations and used to sell shit to kids. And I think
that's pretty fucking scary. Meanwhile, a lot of quote on quote punk bands are going right along with it. Allowing themselves and their music and everything about them to be used to do it. So that was one reason.
But it's also about how it's glamorized to be kind of a fucked-up loser. To tie it into what you were saying, right now it's glamorized to be lazy and it's "cool" to be a fuck up, and that's the chorus of the song... "what are you going to do when it's not cool to be a loser no more?" 5 years from now, when a lot of people are still doing the same shit that they're doing now and they wake up like, holy fuck what am I going to do?
Do you think that, historically, the focus of what punk rock is about was different than it is now? Would you like to see it change? The whole idea of the scene, and those bands, what they're about and how they handle things?
Lukas: I think the difference is... There aren't any legends anymore. Things were built to last when it first started. The music was good and it was something brand new. Even with art, artists that are amazing and have stuck around for hundreds of years, are quality. The thing that's going on with punk music... it's been bastardized. Now it's incorporated with a lack of talent and a lack of enthusiasm and this whole sort of like "I'm crazy! I put the bed in my hotel room in the hallway and doused myself with Jack Daniels." It used to seem legit and needed and now it seems forced and marketable. I mean, Newfound Glory is having their record company pay for their tattoos. That's just fucking abominable. I can't even believe that.
Would it be difficult to survive in the way that the marketplace has been set up nowadays, for people who feel like you do? Do you have to go pretty far out of your way to get your music out and to play shows and promote if you want to do things outside of that? To play festivals that aren't sponsored by Budweiser?
Lukas: That's the thing. It's set up right now so any band that wants to do anything above a basement show has to sacrifice themselves in some way. It's a struggle, for us, between what we want to do and what we want to say, and our dreams -- and our own personal beliefs. I think we're only allowed one Fugazi. They did something special. There's so many kids who are like, "well Fugazi did it." Well, no. Fugazi did it because they're Fugazi. Most people won't be able to do that, will never be able to do that.
Mike: I don't think it's possible for a band to say, we're going to be a huge band. Those aren't decisions that you make, those are just things that happen. But you can make decisions that limit how big you get. I think that's what our constant conversation is. We're obviously at a level that's far too small to even know what's going to happen but we talk about it "what if this? What are we going to do if this happens?"
Bob: A lot of those bands come around, but there's no substance. If a band stays true to themselves and has some sort of a message and every song is not about their girlfriend they broke up with last weekend... It seems like everything on MTV and the radio, that's all it's about. There's no Clash songs, there's nothing that you can get behind and actually feel something for, it's going nowhere.
That's one of the things the guys in the Clash always said. That yeah, okay, we're on a really huge major label but how else would people have heard our music? As long as we keep strong to our message and we stick with that, then however we get that to them, it's going to be okay. It's going to get to somebody who needs to hear it and that's more important.
Lukas: I remember when Rage Against the Machine was at their height. I went into a 7-Eleven with friends of mine and RATM was on the cover of Spin Magazine, and they were like, "fucking sellouts." While these kids were going to a state college, wearing Calvin Klein underwear, fucking drinking a Coke. There are necessary steps of evil you have to take to make things better because things are so fucked up right now, you're not going to get to a point without playing ball a little bit.
Nina
Going back to what you said that there are no legends any more, and about the original music being built to last... I'm playing Devil's Advocate a little bit, but Generation Vexed is a song that isn't necessarily universal. It's a song that 20 years down the road, people might not relate to, because they're not going to know enough about what's going on now for that statement to mean too much to them. Maybe it will, if things continue, but do you in any way try to make your songs universal or do you feel like it's more important to talk specifically about what's going on now?
Lukas: Well, two things. First, there's no pre-thought of that when we write a song. Also, T-Rex is in a fucking car commercial right now. You know that song "20th Century Boy"? God knows they don't know what the fuck that song is about, and it's being used to sell cars. At the same time, I hope there is a kid that sees that car commercial, likes the band, picks up the record and gets it. I think that right now we're living in a really important time that will be put on the books, somehow, somewhere.
Mike: I don't think that we're necessarily out to be a legendary band but I think that "Generation Vexed", and also another song, "Every Great Western," are songs that are very timely right now.
To me, those are the reasons that I write songs. When I'm sitting on the train thinking about something that's going on. I don't think that someone twenty years from now will necessarily get it, but possibly a few months from now when the record comes out, it strikes home with somebody and makes them realize something that will lead to a way of thinking about something later on. It's a step, it's not something that's meant to blow the fuck up. Ideally, though, you can sneak a message into a catchy song and make it become part of a melody in someone's head. It's a challenge to trick people into ways of thinking.
Lukas: I also think, for my own personal political beliefs, and I think I speak for the majority of us, that I would like for our songs to become obsolete in their message. Because things would change so much. But I honestly think that 20, 50, 100 years down the line, we're going to be facing the exact same shit. Kids being taken for a ride with the things they love, having it bought and sold back to them.
Bob: It's the repeat of the 60s and 70s, what's going on right now.
Nobody in this band is actually from New York. When you start going out and touring and playing, you guys are going to be looked at as a New York band. You're going to be compared to a lot of the NY bands right now, whether you like it or not. Do you feel like you're willing to kind of back yourself up saying "We're from New York?" Some of you guys live in Jersey. It must be at least a little bit weird because when you go somewhere else, to them, you're from New York. And you're lumped into a scene that you don't necessarily like.
Mike: Well, I think it's really exciting to have the opportunity to actually be on the forefront of the next generation of rock bands from New York. I feel like I grew up on NY Hardcore bands. And a lot of the NY bands that are currently successful rock bands like the Strokes and stuff like that, I don't feel like I have anything in common with that. So I feel like it's a cool chance to maybe be a band from NY that people can connect with. It's not this huge, untouchable thing, it's just a street-level band that you can connect with and understand. NY has always been kind of untouchable and I think that's a cool thing, but it doesn't necessarily...
Lukas: Yeah, I never want anyone in an interview to say about us, "wow, they actually are nice guys" because we would give off an image of being total fucking shitheads, which, certain NY bands do. Fuck that. There's no right for you to be a dick. It's only rock and roll.
